“That I never really felt like people in power would prefer that me and my kind just dry up and blow away.”
Sorry I have to call bullshit on that. Liberals like to say that is what the current administration is doing, yet I have yet to hear that.
Or see it. I work with Mexicans and Guatemalans and others and they basically do what the Irish and Italians did 100 years ago - work their asses off and keep their heads low. Get their kids a true education (not the indoctrination offered up but our institutions now) and then watch their grandkids become doctors and teachers and successful business owners.
That America is alive and well!
The huddled masses never saw themselves as victims but as grateful participants in the greatest country in the world.
Clark - I’ve thought about your comments for a while now. At first I figured I wouldn’t respond at all, rather than respond from a place of conflict. But since I’m trying to live into a way of seeing how it might be possible for folks with very different perspectives on politics and society to be in conversation, I decided to try and follow up on that intention.
I’d like to share a couple of thoughts and a couple of questions and would value your response.
First, I’m just curious — What has led you to keep reading my posts after I’m sure it was clear that we don’t see politics, society, or Christianity from anything resembling a common perspective?
Second, I am aware that you have done much good work with folks over the years and want to acknowledge those contributions to the greater good, both inside and outside the U.S. And like you, having met (and been friends with) many folks from other countries, I am often struck by the sense of hope/promise they attach to the U.S. Often those hopes are at least partly fulfilled; yes, there is still a USA that offers a better life to folks who can’t find even basic safety or opportunity in their home country. Those who are a) willing, and b) able to work very hard can often earn a decent living, though rarely without experiencing a fair amount of racism and abuse along the way. We tend to tell the success stories of immigrants and to sweep the failure stories under a rug; they don’t fit the narrative we want to be able to tell about the U.S. as a “land of opportunity.” For some, it is… but not for all.
Last, calling “bullshit” on a statement that was intensely personal for me felt a bit harsh. Whether or not you - from your decidedly different perspective - have heard/noticed that from the current administration, I am certainly experiencing it. How have you felt that from liberals at some point? I suppose part of what folks on both sides of the political/social divide may be lacking is empathy for the pain/frustration that others feel.
I don't know if the country you are grieving ever existed or not, but I strongly feel that we are sliding from the ideal country I felt we were once heading toward. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back again soon, before we lose our momentum for progress.
Momentum and progress... I struggle with those words far more than I used to. Part of me wants to insist that there has been (and will be) progress toward things like greater equity for all people; so is it a pendulum or more of a spiral? But my idealism is tempered by the reality that people who are afraid (and there will always be fear...) respond in ways that are not rational and not even in their own best interests. Unfortunately I don't see that ever changing unless greater self awareness suddenly intercedes. Thanks for your thoughts - and for challenging mine!
The oppressor/oppressed lens, the lens that interprets justice and injustice through who is privileged and who is not, is a helpful lens. It helps us see certain things. But it’s not the only lens, and I don’t think it’s the most helpful lens right now. Any lens has its distortions and throws some things out of focus.
Among other things, the oppressor/oppressed lens, focused as it is on power dynamics, blurs the things that make us human together, “oppressor” and “oppressed” alike. What is under assault is the moral infrastructure of meaning and purpose, without which a society collapses in on its own hollow core. What is under assault today is the very notion of a moral framework AT ALL, an authority that constrains self-will and the libido dominandi —such framework being the logically necessary precondition of being able to judge the just from the unjust
Cynical opportunism is nothing new. Nihilism is nothing new. What is new, is that we elected it to be our president. That’s worth lamenting. But it’s not lamenting a country, not primarily. It’s lamenting a universe of meaning.
The good news is that the recovery of a moral infrastructure is not the work of government or of the political realm. It’s our work—the work of citizens, the work of intermediary institutions, the work of writers, educators, artists poets
Very helpful thoughts, Chris. Each time lately that I have tried to write about moral frameworks, I find myself running into roadblocks in my thinking; one of the most significant is the one you named in which I have (at least in part) identified myself with an "oppressor" class. What "stripes have I earned" that give me the right to suggest morality at all? Thus leaving me speechless and disempowered. Your reminder of OUR work gives me encouragement to continue sorting through all of this through thinking, writing, and conversation. Long live the writer, educators, artists, and poets! ❤️
I share your thoughts Dana. Ever since DT's election I have felt like I have lost my country, a country I never believed could elect such a thug. More and more though, I realize my naivety was that I trusted in a country that didn't really exist, except in my imagination. It's quite a reality check, a "white privilege" reality check which I certainly needed.
Sorry I missed this comment earlier, Bob. As I mentioned in response to another comment, "my idealism is tempered by the reality that people who are afraid (and there will always be fear...) respond in ways that are not rational and not even in their own best interests." Fear and anger come with and from a lack of perceived options; so many in our country, unfortunately, don't sense options within the traditional political framework. And they're probably not wrong...
From your text:
“That I never really felt like people in power would prefer that me and my kind just dry up and blow away.”
Sorry I have to call bullshit on that. Liberals like to say that is what the current administration is doing, yet I have yet to hear that.
Or see it. I work with Mexicans and Guatemalans and others and they basically do what the Irish and Italians did 100 years ago - work their asses off and keep their heads low. Get their kids a true education (not the indoctrination offered up but our institutions now) and then watch their grandkids become doctors and teachers and successful business owners.
That America is alive and well!
The huddled masses never saw themselves as victims but as grateful participants in the greatest country in the world.
Clark - I’ve thought about your comments for a while now. At first I figured I wouldn’t respond at all, rather than respond from a place of conflict. But since I’m trying to live into a way of seeing how it might be possible for folks with very different perspectives on politics and society to be in conversation, I decided to try and follow up on that intention.
I’d like to share a couple of thoughts and a couple of questions and would value your response.
First, I’m just curious — What has led you to keep reading my posts after I’m sure it was clear that we don’t see politics, society, or Christianity from anything resembling a common perspective?
Second, I am aware that you have done much good work with folks over the years and want to acknowledge those contributions to the greater good, both inside and outside the U.S. And like you, having met (and been friends with) many folks from other countries, I am often struck by the sense of hope/promise they attach to the U.S. Often those hopes are at least partly fulfilled; yes, there is still a USA that offers a better life to folks who can’t find even basic safety or opportunity in their home country. Those who are a) willing, and b) able to work very hard can often earn a decent living, though rarely without experiencing a fair amount of racism and abuse along the way. We tend to tell the success stories of immigrants and to sweep the failure stories under a rug; they don’t fit the narrative we want to be able to tell about the U.S. as a “land of opportunity.” For some, it is… but not for all.
Last, calling “bullshit” on a statement that was intensely personal for me felt a bit harsh. Whether or not you - from your decidedly different perspective - have heard/noticed that from the current administration, I am certainly experiencing it. How have you felt that from liberals at some point? I suppose part of what folks on both sides of the political/social divide may be lacking is empathy for the pain/frustration that others feel.
I don't know if the country you are grieving ever existed or not, but I strongly feel that we are sliding from the ideal country I felt we were once heading toward. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back again soon, before we lose our momentum for progress.
Momentum and progress... I struggle with those words far more than I used to. Part of me wants to insist that there has been (and will be) progress toward things like greater equity for all people; so is it a pendulum or more of a spiral? But my idealism is tempered by the reality that people who are afraid (and there will always be fear...) respond in ways that are not rational and not even in their own best interests. Unfortunately I don't see that ever changing unless greater self awareness suddenly intercedes. Thanks for your thoughts - and for challenging mine!
The oppressor/oppressed lens, the lens that interprets justice and injustice through who is privileged and who is not, is a helpful lens. It helps us see certain things. But it’s not the only lens, and I don’t think it’s the most helpful lens right now. Any lens has its distortions and throws some things out of focus.
Among other things, the oppressor/oppressed lens, focused as it is on power dynamics, blurs the things that make us human together, “oppressor” and “oppressed” alike. What is under assault is the moral infrastructure of meaning and purpose, without which a society collapses in on its own hollow core. What is under assault today is the very notion of a moral framework AT ALL, an authority that constrains self-will and the libido dominandi —such framework being the logically necessary precondition of being able to judge the just from the unjust
Cynical opportunism is nothing new. Nihilism is nothing new. What is new, is that we elected it to be our president. That’s worth lamenting. But it’s not lamenting a country, not primarily. It’s lamenting a universe of meaning.
The good news is that the recovery of a moral infrastructure is not the work of government or of the political realm. It’s our work—the work of citizens, the work of intermediary institutions, the work of writers, educators, artists poets
Very helpful thoughts, Chris. Each time lately that I have tried to write about moral frameworks, I find myself running into roadblocks in my thinking; one of the most significant is the one you named in which I have (at least in part) identified myself with an "oppressor" class. What "stripes have I earned" that give me the right to suggest morality at all? Thus leaving me speechless and disempowered. Your reminder of OUR work gives me encouragement to continue sorting through all of this through thinking, writing, and conversation. Long live the writer, educators, artists, and poets! ❤️
I share your thoughts Dana. Ever since DT's election I have felt like I have lost my country, a country I never believed could elect such a thug. More and more though, I realize my naivety was that I trusted in a country that didn't really exist, except in my imagination. It's quite a reality check, a "white privilege" reality check which I certainly needed.
Sorry I missed this comment earlier, Bob. As I mentioned in response to another comment, "my idealism is tempered by the reality that people who are afraid (and there will always be fear...) respond in ways that are not rational and not even in their own best interests." Fear and anger come with and from a lack of perceived options; so many in our country, unfortunately, don't sense options within the traditional political framework. And they're probably not wrong...